Parenting to Impress

Creating a Structured Home Environment

• Heidi Franz @ ABCJesusLovesMe • Episode 62

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Ever wondered how to create a home environment where respect, trust, and obedience naturally flourish? In our latest episode of Parenting to Impress, we uncover the biblical foundations of family structure and obedience, drawing wisdom from the scriptures.   

And hitting a topic not typically shared in Christian circles, Heidi Franz and Melanie Simpson share encouragement for parents whose children are not following God's desire for their lives. 

Be encouraged and empowered as you join in yet another honesty and transparent conversation among friends.

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Melanie Simpson Co-host 00:00

Heidi, one of our podcast listeners, wrote in and asked about structure. Jenna posed the question, “How do you know if a home has structure or not? I hear people say that family has structure. What does this mean and how do you know? Is this based on the rules of their home? We…that is Jenna's family… have less structure than some other families, but maybe more structure than others. So how do you know if you have the right amount of structure? And is there such a thing as the right or wrong about a structure?”

Heidi Franz Host 00:36

I am excited to dig into this one. 

Welcome back to Parenting, to Impress your go-to podcast, to learn practical ways to love God and love others and impress this on the hearts of your children. I am your host, Heidi Franz, and I am joined by my dear friend, Melanie Simpson, two moms who have made a lot of mistakes but have found grace and truth along the way. 

Melanie, this is a fantastic question. The question, I think, boils down to “How do you know if a family has an expectation of obedience?”  Let's talk about, what is obedience? 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 01:12

So immediately, as you know, you and I would go to Scripture and we would think about why is this word obedience even important? A couple of things that I came up with as far as Bible verses. First is Psalm 24:1: The earth is the Lord's and everything in it, the world and all who live in it. 

So immediately, what that tells me is that there is a hierarchy. I am not God, God is God. And what we see in Scripture, all of Scripture, is that there is a structure to, or rhythm to, being a person of faith, to being a Christ follower. When you follow something, that means there are things about that person that you find desirable, you find worthy of following, and that then causes a change in how you live, and we see this in Jesus himself. 

Heidi Franz Host 02:12

Philippians 2:8 says, Jesus was obedient unto death, even death on a cross. So, obedience is modeled for us. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 02:23

Exactly. Specifically, then, when we think about children this is one of many, but Proverbs 10:1 says that a wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish son brings grief to his mother. We're not splitting hairs.  This states that both parents can be grieved or brought joy. But the point is, how do we help build, help form wise people? Well, we see in Scripture, wisdom comes from knowing the Lord, knowing what he asks of us to be as Christ followers, and then living out that faith. 

Heidi Franz Host 02:58

Yeah, John 14:15 says, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” We show love to God by obeying Him.  This goes back to the last podcast we did on respect. We obey because we respect, we honor, we trust God and what he desires for us to be. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 03:21

I guess the next logical place to take this conversation is…If we know, then, that, as believers, our households should be places where obedience is required. It's taught.  It's not just something that magically happens. We’re spending the time and stewarding our time to train up our children to be obedient to the Lord. Then that's reflected in how they obey us. But what, then, would be the hallmarks? How would you know that a child is living in a home where structure, that is, discipline and obedience, are required? 

Heidi Franz Host 03:59

I love that question. Melanie, you know that I lead preschool worship at church. Pre-COVID I had 80 to 100 pairs of eyes looking at me each week when I led.  That is a lot of families being represented in those three to six age kiddos. 

There are kiddos who, by personality, just participated, did what they were supposed to do. It was just in them to do that. There are also those kids that, by personality, struggled to sit still. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 04:38

Sure. 

Heidi Franz Host 04:39

They were young and their bodies wanted a lot of action, a lot of activity. My job as the teacher is to make sure that I am appropriately teaching to their age and maturity. 

Then there were kiddos who weren't going to sit because they're not going to be told what to do it.  

The fourth type of kiddo that we have is the one who obeys and does what he/she is told to do because they have practiced at home. 

Now I want to say, just because a child is active doesn't mean the mom and dad aren't working on it at home. So hear me out, because I definitely have kiddos that we work with, whose parents are working with them, they are sitting at home and they are having active listening, they are reading books and still that child struggles to hold still. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 05:41

And I get that. 

Heidi Franz Host 05:43

I see a huge difference when I go to that child to ask them to put their hands on their knees or close their mouth or participate in the song. It's what happens after that request occurs. That makes all the difference in the world. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 06:05

I would venture to say what you're talking about is outright defiance versus obedience. 

What is so interesting is, and I'm so glad you said this, because I have three boys and one girl. I have some fidgeters, but they were obedient fidgeters.  Then, at times, I've had some defiant little toots, but God love them. 

It is so interesting that children, just like adults, there's all kinds. God requires the same thing of all of us, which is obedience.  Not perfect, right. In homes we are, as we've talked about this all the time, to model that same relationship that we have with the Lord and to train our children to do that as well. What are some of the things, then, that we could recommend to families to foster a home that has structure? 

Heidi Franz Host 06:57

I think the biggest thing is you have to practice at home what you desire outside of the home.  Whether that child is in Sunday school, is in the grocery store, whether you're at library reading time, whatever that behavior is that you want outside of the home, you have to practice it in the home and you have to practice it consistently with expectations. 

A lot of people will say, “But Heidi, a three-year-old can't sit for Bible time.” Oh, yes, they can. 

It is age appropriate for a three-year-old to sit for a limited amount of time for active learning. It is age appropriate for a two-year-old to sit while you are reading an age-appropriate book. We need to be very careful that we understand truly what a child is able to do. I will put in the show notes some free developmental guides for you to have at your disposal so that you can look and see. What should a one-year-old be able to do? What should a five-year-old be able to do to make sure that your expectations at home are matching up with how God created that child. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 08:15

Yeah, if you are listening to this and going, “Oh man, I really want to circle the wagons and do a better job of stewarding my time with my child to train them.” It's okay, just know you're going to have to start back at square one to train them.  It will take time to build up to the age-appropriate skill. 

If you have not been requiring your six-year-old to carry his dinner plate to the sink, just give it some time, give it a week. Then actually begin to require it, without supervision or without the constant reminder. Ephesians talks about fathers not exasperating their children. Exasperation comes in when we demand behaviors of children that are either not age appropriate or that we have not put the time in to train them to do. 

Heidi Franz Host 09:06

Love and Logic Early Childhood says, for every one year lack of parenting, it takes one month to turn that ship around. So you think about it. If you have a three-year-old who cannot sit for Sunday school, refuses to participate.  In three months, that's an average, obviously, but that's kind of your goal to be able to turn things around. 

The next thing I want to say that I see in kiddos is their lack of willingness to try. My oldest son is working at a Bible camp again this summer and he has children who come to camp and refuse to leave the cabin because they don't want to try anything. They don't want to participate. 

If you see that your kids do not want to try new things, participate, and we're talking in safe situations. When a Sunday school class is playing a game, is your child participating? Is your child standing on the wall? If you're at library time, is your child participating? Is your child standing on the wall? If you're at library time, is your child participating or is your child just watching? 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 10:16

And Heidi, I think this is a great place where being a student of your child is really helpful. I was a shy kid. There were times when my parents called me out on it and encouraged me to power through it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it didn't. I'll be honest.  I think, at the end of the day, what my parents did really well is they gave me a lot of opportunities to try new things and to fail at a lot of things, but the stakes were low because it was within my family. They were right there with me. 

That's what's key is, as you said, not using personality as an excuse to not participate, not try things. But I think, just as a parent being mindful, that this is a great opportunity to present those things in really low stakes ways so that you're building their confidence and you're building their grit, because life is all about failing and getting back up and trying again. 

Heidi Franz Host 11:13

And I think if I had a child who was boisterous and loud, it's the same as a child who is shy and doesn't want to participate. They're the far extremes, but both of them need to have the encouragement, the structure, the boundaries to come to terms with what God created them to be, and not use those things as a crutch or excuse. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host

Right, and that's again where we talk about the structure. We, as parents, are called to discipline and disciple. It's no coincidence that those words are so interconnected.  Discipline is not a negative word. It's just either encouraging, giving rewards, or guiding. 

So in a family situation, your child chooses not to participate in something. The consequence is that they don't get to have the fun that you as a family are having. 

Being mindful, this is all a training ground. 

Heidi Franz Host 12:14

Yes, the second thing that I see is the kiddos who have parents who are not consistent, and how I see that is that when they are told something, they immediately ignore it and wait for the adult to either raise their voice, come to them, get angry and then they act. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 12:38

The parent is reacting to the situation or the behavior, versus responding and issuing a reward or a consequence or encouragement or whatever. 

Heidi Franz Host 12:46

We also talk about armchair parenting. It takes a lot of effort to be consistent and it's much easier to sit in the chair with your phone in your left hand and bark orders. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 13:08

One of the breakdowns is inconsistency, Heidi, and what this calls to my mind is something that you've talked about in other podcasts and in conferences is we really want to strive to be an authoritative parent, that is, one who provides the training and coaching and discipleship, but does so in an involved way. We're not just, like you said, barking orders like a dictator. We are respecting the child and we are also expecting great things from them. 

Heidi Franz Host 13:39

Okay, Melanie, there's one thing that I want to end this podcast on, and that's the word free will. This is a hard one, and this is also very personal, because you and I have both created homes of structure, where obedience is expected, where we are consistent, and yet our children do not always obey. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 14:06

Isn't that so rude of them?  I mean, where do they get off? Oh my goodness.

Heidi Franz Host 14:11

Yeah, it's a little surprising but, Melanie, if parenting has taught me anything, I can do everything in my power, but at the end of the day, my kids are going to have to make a choice. They are going to surrender their will and obey, or they are going to choose their own desires and wants. 

So, in this question of how do you know if your home has structure, has the expectation of obedience, I want to talk to those parents who are doing what God has called them to do. They're not perfect in it. I definitely am not perfect in it. Let's talk to them for a few minutes. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 15:00

Yeah. 

Heidi Franz Host 15:00

Because, Melanie, just being very vulnerable, I remember very well picking up one of my children from their church classroom and wanting to immediately say, “I'm sorry, was he okay?” It was a feeling of regret, a huge feeling of embarrassment, because I knew that he probably struggled, yet we had very high expectations in our home. And I would say, now that he is a teenager, it still happens. 

So let's talk to those parents. What would you say? 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 15:46

I would say first, just a reminder, you are not alone.  If you have a child or children, there are going to be times when you are disappointed by their behavior, and that's okay. When they are of age, where they are willfully disobeying, it's wounding.  Right?  Because we know that God's best is so good for them, and we know on this side of childhood what it means to rail against the will of the Lord. We also have to be mindful that they are children and not adults.  It's not fair to them to expect them to act like adults.  

Likewise  with that child, just because they are of my husband and myself and were raised in the same family, they are very much entitled to be their own person. 

Heidi Franz Host 17:07

And we want them to be their own person. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 17:09

Right, I think where the breakdown happens is when we have expectations for respect, for honor, for obedience, and those expectations are not fulfilled.  That's when it's important to first, for me, go to the Lord and ask for a reminder of all the ways that I too have been disobedient, and I don't mean that in a way like that “I need the Lord to give me a grocery list of all of my sins and failings,” but I need humility. I need to be humbled before the Lord as a sinner, so that then I am aware and reminded of his grace, and then I can extend that grace. 

Heidi Franz Host 17:55

And I can walk beside my child as a sinner saved by grace, not as an authority that has it all figured out. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 18:06

What ends up happening is your child then feels that death grip that we have on them. And when they sense that we are embarrassed, disappointed, ashamed, angry because of their behavior, their lack of obedience, that does nothing to draw them to the heart of the Lord. 

Heidi Franz Host 18:26

We are tying our love for them with what they do. Now we're turning into a workspace religion.

Melanie Simpson Co-host 18:30

The plight or the joy, whichever way you want, of being a follower of Christ, is that we are in this constant state of failing because we're sinners.  But living in the hope of a time when that won't be anymore. And so we still strive, not in our flesh, but because of Christ. 

And that is a hard lesson to teach, to be taught by the Lord as a believer, and a hard lesson to teach to our children. And what's key here is that and this goes back to free will.  I can model, I can teach, I can talk, we can go to church, we can read scripture, we can do all the things, but at the end of the day, my child's willingness to obey God is my child's willingness to obey God. 

Heidi Franz Host 19:20

We have to separate ourselves from that and that's hard because it's really easy to get our identity, especially as moms, in our children: the grades they get, the activities they do, how well they succeed in those activities, their behavior, their politeness.  I can easily get wrapped up in “ I am Heidi, the mom of “blank” who does “blank.” No, “I am Heidi, God's child forgiven with a plan and a purpose.” 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 19:59

And I think too, back on our podcast that we did about comparison, and particularly with social media and even in churches, it's so easy to compare and think, “Well, you know Sally's child. He studies the scriptures every day and he leads Bible study.”  Or the other side is “Well at least my kid's not like Susie.” 

But when it comes to free will and obedience, we have to remember that we are in the same boat as our children. What they decide to do about God is their business. 

But I will say this in our home, all of our kids are old enough where that's between them and the Lord.  But also in our house, we still, as a family, go to church. We still have a requirement of serving one another and of taking care of each other and other people. When you leave our home, you decide to live your life a different way. I can't stop you from doing that. 

Heidi Franz Host 20:54

I think that's the hard part. I have said it many, many times, “Oh, to go back to when they were younger, and I could control those things.” I can't now, and so it's complete surrender of God. Use me however you desire, for my children to turn to you and complete surrender. 

So, Melanie, to kind of land this plane, how do you know when a family has structure or not? There are some key things that we can look for. We can look for that obedience, we can look for that participation. We can look for does the child obey the first time or does it take the child 10 times before they obey? But also with understanding that we don't know what happens behind closed doors. There are kids who just obey and their parents haven't really done a lot. They're just obedient kids. 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 21:52

The kids at school who get straight A's without studying. It's just a personality trait or whatever the hallmarks of a household that has structure, and security and requires obedience. Think about the conversation that we had with the youth pastor. There are children who can engage in conversation with adults, are respectful of other people, not just adults, but their peers. They're not tackling one another in the worship. 

Heidi Franz Host 22:16

There's training that is happening in the home and that's what you really see in families who are having this structure, having this obedience. They don't go to restaurants to train their kids. They are training their kids how to behave in restaurants, in home. They are training their kids how to behave at church in their home, but also understanding that there are some kids that just go rogue. As one of those parents, I just encourage you to reach out to those parents. They're struggling, they're hurting, they need a hug, they need somebody to say, “I see you working hard and I'm joining you in prayer.” 

Melanie Simpson Co-host 23:07

And to say, “I love your kids.” There is nothing better than when someone says, on the heels of me, telling them a story about, “Holy moly, you won't believe what this child did.” And they said, “Man, I love that kid.”

Heidi Franz Host 23:23

So, as you're thinking about this, I just encourage you to go to the Lord in prayer and really seek him. Do you have a home of structure? Do you have a home of obedience? If this is something that you realize, “Man, I am not requiring obedience of my kiddos.” I invite you to check out the Grace and Truth parenting videos on the ABCJesusLovesMe.com website. Again, we will put this in the show notes, but I encourage you to watch those. 

And then I would love to have a conversation with you. Reach out to me through the ABCJesusLovesMe.com website and let's just brainstorm some ideas. 

I am so thankful, Melanie, that you are willing to have this discussion, because there are a lot of facets to this. But when we come to the Lord in prayer, when we go to wise biblical counsel and say, “Hey, what are you seeing?” And we are humble about it, it's going to change everything for eternity. 

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People on this episode

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Heidi Franz

Host
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Melanie Simpson

Co-host